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16 Re: Twilight of the canon; The Commodore, TYA, and beyond... (SPOILERS!) -- rank: 864

Batrinque_at_AOL.COM wrote: > > SPOILERS for TC and TYA below: > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > Pullings was Jack's flag captain when Jack was a commodore in TC, but when > Jack reverted to just being a post captain, there was no long spot for Pullings. > I suppose he became one of those unemployed officers on the Navy List. I have wondered if he ...

Poster's Name:	Jessie
Poster's Email:	entwold_at_ATT.NET
Message Date:	2006-10-01 21:41:53 UTC

17 Re: Twilight of the canon; The Commodore, TYA, and beyond... (SPOILERS!) -- rank: 864

This was a great thread and Katherine, what a nice summing up. I know we're just all grateful that POB used his good mind as long as he did. I am not sure I'd read the last 3 every time but still aiming for many more re-reads.         And, I loved your post in Re: Twilight of the canon -- Naah! You wrote: Jack and Stephen would certainly have taken some inspiration from Mozart. I had previously pictured Jagiello as Cherubino, but maybe he's Babbington. BIG SNIP "E se non ho ch ...

Poster's Name:	Linnea
Poster's Email:	ronlin2_at_BELLSOUTH.NET
Message Date:	2006-10-01 03:30:29 UTC

18 Re: Twilight of the canon; The Commodore, TYA, and beyond... (SPOILERS!) -- rank: 864

I do think these examples point out that POB was, relative to other long-running series, quite good with continuity. My first time through the canon took me 2-odd years, and I had no inkling that the publication ranged some 30. My only clue was the slight changes in mood & perspective that prompted my opening of this thread. Even looking back over a few days, I feel I'm perhaps not being completely fair in my assesment of the last books. As I write this (well not literally as I'm w ...

Poster's Name:	Paul Keller
Poster's Email:	senna1_at_GMAIL.COM
Message Date:	2006-09-28 21:56:56 UTC

19 Re: Twilight of the canon; The Commodore, TYA, and beyond... (SPOILERS!) -- rank: 864

On 9/26/06, Don Seltzer <timoneer_at_gmail.com> wrote: >> > One reason for this demarcation at the end of WDS is that POB was concluding a plot line that had been planned out years earlier, beginning with TGS and eventually running through four books. With COM, he was starting out with almost a blank page. He began with just a few issues to deal with, including possible demise and replacement of a major character, and Jack's future in a war drawing to a close. Some of hi ...

Poster's Name:	Katherine T
Poster's Email:	mrs.broad_at_GMAIL.COM
Message Date:	2006-09-28 16:31:33 UTC

20 Re: Twilight of the canon; The Commodore, TYA, and beyond... (SPOILERS!) -- rank: 864

On 9/28/06, Oliver Mundy <oliver.mundy_at_talk21.com> wrote: > > SHERLOCK HOLMES (Conan Doyle: 1887-1926)   Watson's Christian name is sometimes John and sometimes James. >     Oliver Mundy. > Also, I believe his wound from a Jezail bullet alternated between his arm and his leg.

Poster's Name:	Katherine T
Poster's Email:	mrs.broad_at_GMAIL.COM
Message Date:	2006-09-28 16:22:19 UTC

21 Re: Twilight of the canon; The Commodore, TYA, and beyond... (SPOILERS!) -- rank: 864

        Paul Keller has made the point that the Canon was written over a very long period of time. I think it may be instructive to see how well or badly other writers maintained consistency in dealing with recurrent characters over a comparable span. Here are a few examples: -         HORNBLOWER (Forester: written 1937-1965) In the first book, 'The Happy Return', Hornblower is said to have been 37 years old in about 1808 (which would make him a very near contemporary of Jack's); la ...

Poster's Name:	Oliver Mundy
Poster's Email:	oliver.mundy_at_TALK21.COM
Message Date:	2006-09-28 16:13:27 UTC

22 Re: Twilight of the canon; The Commodore, TYA, and beyond... (SPOILERS!) -- rank: 864

Partial TC SPOILER                                       Susan Wenger had indicated that a cllasmate of hers in elementary school moved and she never saw her again, and that's life. Agreed in that sense these "disappearing" characters is justifiable for O'Brian as matters that happen all the time, and in the case of Martin I would go for that, but NOT for Pullings or even Babbington. O'Brian has made it so very clear over the course of the canon how men in the RN who becam ...

Poster's Name:	Wendy Falconer
Poster's Email:	pitti_a_partlet_at_YAHOO.COM
Message Date:	2006-09-27 22:07:32 UTC

23 Re: Twilight of the canon; The Commodore, TYA, and beyond... (SPOILERS!) -- rank: 864

I'd just like to thank everyone for their comments, I'm glad I'm not the only one who sensed a change in the writing towards the end of the series. The discussion has also led me to make a few realizations that should have been obvious to me from the beginning; one example being the time frame of writing. M&C was published in 1969; COM in 1994 - it is perhaps no small wonder that the style of tthe books didn't change even more than what I noticed. Three decades is a long time to (w ...

Poster's Name:	Paul Keller
Poster's Email:	senna1_at_GMAIL.COM
Message Date:	2006-09-27 14:43:54 UTC

24 Re: Twilight of the canon; The Commodore, TYA, and beyond... (SPOILERS!) -- rank: 864

Linnea - What a wonderful site, I somehow missed that while searching around the web. I had missed the first group read as I was still working my way through the canon for the first time at that point and doing my utmost to avoid spoilers. Reading the discussion there will keep me busy for quite a while I can see. On 9/26/06, Linnea wrote: > > Many of your questions were touched upon when we did the first Group > Read which John Finneran has posted on his site: > O'Pinions ...

Poster's Name:	Paul Keller
Poster's Email:	senna1_at_GMAIL.COM
Message Date:	2006-09-27 14:10:46 UTC

25 Re: Twilight of the canon; The Commodore, TYA, and beyond... (SPOILERS!) -- rank: 864

"[A]m I the only one who sensed a marked change in the books following WDS, starting with The Commodore? Prominent characters disappear entirely, the tone and type of writing seems to change, and the overall "aura" of the novels seems different to me. By the first point, I am primarily speaking (writing) of the absence of Martin" (Paul Keller) [Further spoilers, specifically for WDS and 21)         @@         @@         @@         @@         @@         @@       ...

Poster's Name:	Oliver Mundy
Poster's Email:	oliver.mundy_at_TALK21.COM
Message Date:	2006-09-27 09:17:42 UTC

26 Re: Twilight of the canon; The Commodore, TYA, and beyond... (SPOILERS!) -- rank: 864

Thankee for your insights Paul, which in my perception are not poorly organised at all. Like you I have just recently finished my second passage through The Canon, and I was brooding on a posting much along your lines. And I very much like your lable 'Twilight of The Canon', which indeed may well be attributed to the last five books (not counting '21'). Likewise one might call the first three books 'The Prelude of The Canon', as most themes and plot lines are (quickly) touched upon, s ...

Poster's Name:	Jaap Fabriek
Poster's Email:	jjfabriek_at_GMAIL.COM
Message Date:	2006-09-27 08:03:12 UTC

27 Re: Twilight of the canon; The Commodore, TYA, and beyond... (SPOILERS!) -- rank: 864

On Sep 26, 2006, at 1:03 PM, Strey, Geraldine E - WHS wrote: > Passages that in earlier books would have been inserted ligtl; and > skillfully here seem labored, as in the discussion of foreclosures, > which is delivered in one large, didactic lump. The small tenant or landholder is helpless when the big man forecloses. And the sailor, from the smallest squeaker to the lieutenant, shares that helplessness when the war ends and the navy lays up its ships.      Charlezzzzz T ...

Poster's Name:	Charlezzzzz
Poster's Email:	charlezzzzz_at_COMCAST.NET
Message Date:	2006-09-27 06:30:04 UTC

28 Re: Twilight of the canon; The Commodore, TYA, and beyond... (SPOILERS!) -- rank: 864

On Sep 26, 2006, at 1:07 PM, Susan Wenger wrote: > I had a good friend in second grade. When I went to third grade, she > wasn't in the school any more, she'd moved out of the neighborhood, > and I never heard from her again. > > How realistically O'Brian portrays that aspect of real life! Oh, aye. Many's the fine shipmate I had who left the ship when we reached port... and I never heard from him again. That's the way things go in a sailor's life. You get used to it; y ...

Poster's Name:	Charlezzzzz
Poster's Email:	charlezzzzz_at_COMCAST.NET
Message Date:	2006-09-27 06:21:27 UTC

29 Re: Twilight of the canon; The Commodore, TYA, and beyond... (SPOILERS!) -- rank: 864

On Sep 26, 2006, at 8:54 AM, Paul Keller wrote: > But, that said, am I the only one who sensed a marked change in the > books following WDS, starting with The Commodore? Prominent > characters disappear entirely, the tone and type of writing seems to > change, and the overall "aura" of the novels seems different to me. First, please make no apologies for your post I thought your comments were perceptive, and not at all poorly organized. Somewhere in S.M. Stirling's ...

Poster's Name:	Eric Ladner
Poster's Email:	ealadner_at_COMCAST.NET
Message Date:	2006-09-27 05:33:57 UTC

30 Re: Twilight of the canon; The Commodore, TYA, and beyond... (SPOILERS!) -- rank: 864

That should be "that HE went back to . . . " On Sep 26, 2006, at 9:14 PM, Eric Ladner wrote: > On Sep 26, 2006, at 5:58 PM, Billy Ruffian wrote: > >> I prefer to believe that Tom was given a new command of his own, now >> that Jack's patronage had more Pull. >> > Or, at the worst, if the post-war, down-sized Navy had no place for > him, that we went back to the East India Company, and retired rich, if > not famous. > > --Eric > & ...

Poster's Name:	Eric Ladner
Poster's Email:	ealadner_at_COMCAST.NET
Message Date:	2006-09-27 04:57:11 UTC