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181 Re: GRP RD: The Commodore and M&C -- rank: 669

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 21:49:24 +0200, Elise van Looij <evlooij@XS4ALL.NL> wrote: >The theme of infidelity, the fear of being cuckolded, runs throughout >the entire canon. Jack is mostly the offender, but many minor and >major characters wrestle with it, including Stephen. > Yes, I agree. I think I may have not expressed what I was after clearly. Infidelity as it directly effects Jack's ability to command. To keep a clear head, to keep his innate happiness intact. And i ...

Poster's Name:	Julie Hoffman
Poster's Email:	tomatoejane2@HOTMAIL.COM
Message Date:	2005-09-11 22:20:26 UTC

182 Re: GRP RD: The Commodore -- rank: 669

On 9/11/05, Batrinque@aol.com <Batrinque@aol.com> wrote: > Speaking of The Commodore, I will take note (being a Tom Pullings fan) of one > of the happiest passages of the whole Canon: > > In the hall [Stephen] found Tom Pullings, entirely alone, leaping and making > antic gestures: on hearing Stephen he span round,showing a face of such > laughing delight that the Devil himself could not have failed to smile. 'Can I see > the Captain now, do you think?' he aske ...

Poster's Name:	Susan Wenger
Poster's Email:	susanwenger@GMAIL.COM
Message Date:	2005-09-11 21:38:47 UTC

183 GRP RD: The Commodore -- rank: 669

Speaking of The Commodore, I will take note (being a Tom Pullings fan) of one of the happiest passages of the whole Canon: In the hall [Stephen] found Tom Pullings, entirely alone, leaping and making antic gestures: on hearing Stephen he span round,showing a face of such laughing delight that the Devil himself could not have failed to smile. 'Can I see the Captain now, do you think?' he asked.     'You may; but do not speak loud, do not agitate his mind.' Pullings took his elbow in a ...

Poster's Name:	Batrinque@AOL.COM
Poster's Email:	Batrinque@AOL.COM
Message Date:	2005-09-11 20:03:36 UTC

184 Re: GRP RD: The Commodore and M&C -- rank: 669

Op 11-sep-2005, om 20:51 heeft Julie Hoffman het volgende geschreven: > But think of the whole idea of infidelity. In M&C we have Jack > cockolding Harte, in the Commodore > we have Jack's fear and reaction to Hincksey doing the same to > him. In both cases it effects his > command. > > Well, that's all for now. Any thoughts? The theme of infidelity, the fear of being cuckolded, runs throughout the entire canon. Jack is mostly the offender, but many minor and ...

Poster's Name:	Elise van Looij
Poster's Email:	evlooij@XS4ALL.NL
Message Date:	2005-09-11 19:54:18 UTC

185 Re: GRP RD: The Commodore and M&C -- rank: 669

In a message dated 9/11/05 6:53:43 PM !!!First Boot!!!, tomatoejane2@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > I am amazed. It is all there. ... > > Now I want to see if there are other direct connections between the > Commodore and M&C An interesting line of thought, indeed. Possibly, there might be something of parallel structure, with the voyages of the Sophie in M&C clearly differentiated between pre-Cacafuego and post-Cacafuego, and that of the Bellona in TC between the A ...

Poster's Name:	Batrinque@AOL.COM
Poster's Email:	Batrinque@AOL.COM
Message Date:	2005-09-11 19:28:21 UTC

186 GRP RD: The Commodore and M&C -- rank: 669

I have just finished reading the Commodore. Finally, I found the passage that many have mentioned where Stephen hears Jack playing in the night and admits to himself that Jack is and has probably always been, a better musician than he. I let it linger a while, even typing it out and sending it to a friend of mine who I want to seduce into reading the Canon (I think it worked!), and now I have returned to read the first two chapters of M & C. I am amazed. It is all there. Jack not wa ...

Poster's Name:	Julie Hoffman
Poster's Email:	tomatoejane2@HOTMAIL.COM
Message Date:	2005-09-11 18:56:20 UTC

187 Re: Group Read - The Commodore -- rank: 669

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:01:22 +0100, OLIVER MUNDY <oliver.mundy@TALK21.COM> wrote: > In regard to Julie Hoffman's comment on the use of the phrase 'crim. >con.': - I do not think POB is purporting to give the exact terms in which >Sophie formulated her thoughts on her mother's new passion for disreputable >gossip; the words are his own, amplifying for us those elements which >Sophie, probably, would not have articulated even to herself. (While she >is most ...

Poster's Name:	Julie Hoffman
Poster's Email:	tomatoejane2@HOTMAIL.COM
Message Date:	2005-09-11 01:52:28 UTC

188 Re: Group Read - The Commodore -- rank: 669

Op 10-sep-2005, om 10:01 heeft OLIVER MUNDY het volgende geschreven: > In regard to Julie Hoffman's comment on the use of the > phrase 'crim. > con.': - I do not think POB is purporting to give the exact terms > in which > Sophie formulated her thoughts on her mother's new passion for > disreputable > gossip; the words are his own, amplifying for us those elements which > Sophie, probably, would not have articulated even to herself. > (While she > ...

Poster's Name:	Elise van Looij
Poster's Email:	evlooij@XS4ALL.NL
Message Date:	2005-09-10 20:33:58 UTC

189 Re: Group Read - The Commodore -- rank: 669

----- Original Message ----- From: "OLIVER MUNDY" <oliver.mundy@TALK21.COM> T > The phrase itself is a piece of legal slang, well documented in the > literature of the time. Lawyers constantly created abbreviations by taking > the first syllables of longer (often Latin) words, so that, for example, the > writs 'Fieri facias' and 'Capias ad satisfaciendum' (respectively meaning > 'You are to cause to be made' and 'You are to take [so-and-so] in ...

Poster's Name:	Stolzi
Poster's Email:	Stolzi@COMCAST.NET
Message Date:	2005-09-10 16:34:53 UTC

190 Re: Group Read - The Commodore -- rank: 669

        In regard to Julie Hoffman's comment on the use of the phrase 'crim. con.': - I do not think POB is purporting to give the exact terms in which Sophie formulated her thoughts on her mother's new passion for disreputable gossip; the words are his own, amplifying for us those elements which Sophie, probably, would not have articulated even to herself. (While she is most unlikely to have used or even known this phrase - Julie is surely right in this - Mrs. Williams, in her new capa ...

Poster's Name:	OLIVER MUNDY
Poster's Email:	oliver.mundy@TALK21.COM
Message Date:	2005-09-10 07:52:31 UTC

191 Re: Group Read - The Commodore -- rank: 669

In a message dated 9/8/05 5:23:21 PM !!!First Boot!!!, tomatoejane2@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > > On page 60, Norton paperback, Sophie is musing on he mother's new interest > in conversation and in her thoughts she refers to crim. con. > It looks really wierd and not of the period. Anyone know about it? Babbington mentioned crim con to Stephen in an earlier volume. It is short for "crimination conversation", IIRC, and is definitely of the period. It was shorthand f ...

Poster's Name:	Batrinque@AOL.COM
Poster's Email:	Batrinque@AOL.COM
Message Date:	2005-09-09 00:11:10 UTC

192 Re: Group Read - The Commodore -- rank: 669

I assume Julie that Sophie being somewhat prudish does not want to say, criminal conversation, out in full, even to herself. Criminal Conversation being adultery... Angela. >From: Julie Hoffman <tomatoejane2@HOTMAIL.COM> >Reply-To: The Patrick O'Brian List of the World <GUNROOM@HMSSURPRISE.ORG> >To: GUNROOM@HMSSURPRISE.ORG >Subject: [POB] Group Read - The Commodore >Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:21:54 +0100 > >On page 60, Norton paperback, Sophie is musing ...

Poster's Name:	Angela watson
Poster's Email:	zorromuffy@MSN.COM
Message Date:	2005-09-08 23:06:02 UTC

193 Re: Group Read - The Commodore -- rank: 669

On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:40:50 -0400, Cathy McMann <cathymcmann@COMCAST.NET> wrote: >I think it refers to "criminal conversation" which I recall Stephen >referring to as "spouse breach" in another book. Often the reason given for >a man being able to divorce his wife, back in those days long before no >fault divorce. > Thankee, Gerry and Kathy. But isn't it odd that it is abbreviatied? Perhaps I am a romantic, but it sounds and looks so coarse com ...

Poster's Name:	Julie Hoffman
Poster's Email:	tomatoejane2@HOTMAIL.COM
Message Date:	2005-09-08 19:17:50 UTC

194 Re: Group Read - The Commodore -- rank: 669

I think it refers to "criminal conversation" which I recall Stephen referring to as "spouse breach" in another book. Often the reason given for a man being able to divorce his wife, back in those days long before no fault divorce. Cathy 40 º 15' 47" N 74 º 31' 32" W ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Hoffman" <tomatoejane2@HOTMAIL.COM> To: <GUNROOM@HMSSURPRISE.ORG> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 1:21 PM Subject: [POB] Gro ...

Poster's Name:	Cathy McMann
Poster's Email:	cathymcmann@COMCAST.NET
Message Date:	2005-09-08 17:51:45 UTC

195 Re: Group Read - The Commodore -- rank: 669

I think it means criminal conversion or perhaps consent, and refers to adultery. It may have been (theorizing wildly) a lawsuit brought by the wronged husband agianst the seducer. Or maybe that would have been "alientation of affections"? Gerry Strey Madison, Wisconsin >>> tomatoejane2@HOTMAIL.COM 9/8/2005 12:21:54 PM >>> On page 60, Norton paperback, Sophie is musing on he mother's new interest in conversation and in her thoughts she refers to crim. con. ...

Poster's Name:	Gerry Strey
Poster's Email:	gestrey@WHS.WISC.EDU
Message Date:	2005-09-08 17:40:12 UTC