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196 Re: GRP RD BATM: Is Jack related to Jack? -- rank: 633

On Fri, 2 Dec 2005 21:23:27 -0500, Charles Munoz <Charlezzzzz@COMCAST.NET> wrote: SNIP SNIP > >"There may have been some family connexion..." Ha! Jack is a clone of >Jack, and POB has done the cloning. And just think of POB putting on >his clown hat for that next otiose comment - "I am not sure." > > Charlezzzzz, who is sure Charlezzzzz, and now you have done with Jack's father all together in the Grand Tradition of Strange Parentage in P ...

Poster's Name:	Julie Hoffman
Poster's Email:	tomatoejane2@HOTMAIL.COM
Message Date:	2005-12-03 04:15:17 UTC

197 Re: GRP RD BATM: More on Eden SPOILER -- rank: 633

This would be the post I'd point to if anyone contended that POB didn't allude to the classics. (Then of course I'd go on to the exchanges between you and Stargazer Jacquie and others.) Huzzah! ~~Linnea GRP RD BATM: More on Eden SPOILER From: Charles Munoz (Charlezzzzz@COMCAST.NET) Date: Fri Dec 02 2005 - 15:32:07 EST The last time we went around on BATM, we had a discussion of the mangrove swamp wch Stephen and Christine look for birds. That swamp can be taken as an Eden after the fal ...

Poster's Name:	Linnea
Poster's Email:	ronlin2@BELLSOUTH.NET
Message Date:	2005-12-03 03:31:26 UTC

198 Re: GRP RD BATM: Is Jack related to Jack? -- rank: 633

I missed all that completely...you have been eating your Wheaties, Charlezzzzz! A joy to read all your posts tonight. (Actually, it's more like champagne, the wine was put down long ago and you just popped the cork.) ~~ Linnea GRP RD BATM: Is Jack related to Jack? From: Charles Munoz (Charlezzzzz@COMCAST.NET) Date: Fri Dec 02 2005 - 21:23:27 EST One of the great pleasures of reading The Unknown Shore is seeing Jack and Stephen in their earliest shapes, as it were. The two main characte ...

Poster's Name:	Linnea
Poster's Email:	ronlin2@BELLSOUTH.NET
Message Date:	2005-12-03 03:15:05 UTC

199 GRP RD BATM: Is Jack related to Jack? -- rank: 633

One of the great pleasures of reading The Unknown Shore is seeing Jack and Stephen in their earliest shapes, as it were. The two main characters are Jack Byron, midshipman and eager sailor. He will later become the famous admiral Foul Weather Jack Byron; and there's Toby, a juvenile natural philosopher, unknown to history. And damme if POB doesn't give us a nudge, a wink and a nod in BATM, when he shows us Stephen writing one of his long letters: '...Jack Aubrey and I have supped on these ...

Poster's Name:	Charles Munoz
Poster's Email:	Charlezzzzz@COMCAST.NET
Message Date:	2005-12-03 02:31:08 UTC

200 Re: GRP RD BATM: More on Eden SPOILER -- rank: 633

  (snip) I used to get frustrated with my English 1A prof in college for insisting that we track down the behind-the-scenes intents and meanings hidden in an author's words - I just enjoy books for what can be read in the lines, not between them. My old prof would have enjoyed talking with Charlezzzzz, though.   Gary McCormick   37:22:38N 122:01:30W ------------------- And the grand thing about these books (and the best of other literature) is that one read for pure enjoyment, miss ...

Poster's Name:	Astrid Bear
Poster's Email:	astrbear@IX.NETCOM.COM
Message Date:	2005-12-03 02:01:52 UTC

201 Re: GRP RD BATM: More on Eden SPOILER -- rank: 633

On Dec 2, 2005, at 4:47 PM, Ronnie Caton wrote: > I would ask if it were at all > possible that an author would write a story just as story, no > alternative > meanings, no allegories, etc. Maybe that stallion was really a horse > and > not a symbol of the author's lost manhood. Her reply was always "no". She was wrong, poor lady. Most stories have a surface and nothing else. There's nothing wrong with that. But you can't say much about them. So I won't.   ...

Poster's Name:	Charles Munoz
Poster's Email:	Charlezzzzz@COMCAST.NET
Message Date:	2005-12-03 01:43:27 UTC

202 Re: GRP RD BATM: More on Eden SPOILER -- rank: 633

Been there and done that. I used to have the same argument all of the time with a literature teacher in high school. I would ask if it were at all possible that an author would write a story just as story, no alternative meanings, no allegories, etc. Maybe that stallion was really a horse and not a symbol of the author's lost manhood. Her reply was always "no". That an author would never put something on paper just for the purpose of entertainment or because it made a good s ...

Poster's Name:	Ronnie Caton
Poster's Email:	ronniecaton@GMAIL.COM
Message Date:	2005-12-02 21:55:35 UTC

203 Re: GRP RD BATM: More on Eden SPOILER -- rank: 633

On Fri, 2005-12-02 at 15:32 -0500, Charles Munoz wrote: [Concise, lucid analysis of BATM snipped] Never thought I'd relish someone dropping Milton into a conversation out of the blue. Well reasoned and presented, sir. ojs To be removed from the GUNROOM list send a blank message to UNSUBSCRIBE-GUNROOM@HMSSURPRISE.ORG

Poster's Name:	Otto Schlosser
Poster's Email:	otto@ICONGARDEN.ORG
Message Date:	2005-12-02 21:21:38 UTC

204 Re: GRP RD BATM: More on Eden SPOILER -- rank: 633

Charles Munoz <Charlezzzzz@COMCAST.NET> wrote: The last time we went around on BATM, we had a discussion of the mangrove swamp wch Stephen and Christine look for birds. That swamp can be taken as an Eden after the fall, a rather sad, a diminished Eden. <snip an amazing amount of extremely well thought out analysis of the symbology of a swamp>   There was a post just recently from a Lissun who marveled at the depth of analysis of PO'B's works which is displayed here in the Gunro ...

Poster's Name:	Gary McCormick
Poster's Email:	gkmcc@SBCGLOBAL.NET
Message Date:	2005-12-02 21:01:58 UTC

205 GRP RD BATM: More on Eden SPOILER -- rank: 633

The last time we went around on BATM, we had a discussion of the mangrove swamp wch Stephen and Christine look for birds. That swamp can be taken as an Eden after the fall, a rather sad, a diminished Eden. POB writes: ...by the time they reached the water and she was explaining its very curious nature. 'Now look, Stephen, beyond the pygmy geese but before the flamingos ..." [pygmy geese -- d'ye twig it?] 'Christine, can you make out whether the nearer bird is a greater flamingo or t ...

Poster's Name:	Charles Munoz
Poster's Email:	Charlezzzzz@COMCAST.NET
Message Date:	2005-12-02 20:39:47 UTC

206 ... SPOILERS* Re: Did POB change with the times? (was Starting BATM, looking back) -- rank: 633

Thank you, I find it hard to keep up the deep files on this watch, but I appreciate all the erudition. I was wondering however, having just finished The Truelove, and starting Wine Dark Sea, am I a month off in the groupread? I thought I was behind and was trying to catch up. David Smith On Jun 30, 2005, at 6:14 PM, Linnea wrote: > That's a wonderful find. I am glad I saw that since I only seem to be > able > to catch 5 or so posts a day and I grieve to think what I've missed ...

Poster's Name:	David T. Smith
Poster's Email:	david.smith@ACM.ORG
Message Date:	2005-07-04 20:59:12 UTC

207 ... SPOILERS* Re: Did POB change with the times? (was Starting BATM, looking back) -- rank: 633

That's a wonderful find. I am glad I saw that since I only seem to be able to catch 5 or so posts a day and I grieve to think what I've missed. ~~ Linnea David T. Smith wrote: Re: *SPOILERS* Re: Did POB change with the times? (was Starting BATM, looking back) From: David T. Smith (david.smith@ACM.ORG) Date: Thu Jun 23 2005 - 23:22:12 EDT More Spoiler space..... . . . . . . . . .. . . . .. . . .. . . . .. . The thing that struck me about the Hundred Days is the piece ...

Poster's Name:	Linnea
Poster's Email:	ronlin2@BELLSOUTH.NET
Message Date:	2005-06-30 21:30:29 UTC

208 ... SPOILERS* Re: Did POB change with the times? (was Starting BATM, looking back) -- rank: 633

More Spoiler space..... . . . . . . . . .. . . . .. . . .. . . . .. . . .. . . . . .. . . The thing that struck me about the Hundred Days is the piece of music Stephen wrote. He works on it throughout much of the book and when he finally shows it to Jack, Jack says it's the saddest thing he's ever heard. You can't say plainer than that. I think that the weeping was off-screen, but the effect of it was omnipresent throughout the story --just as Billy ...

Poster's Name:	David T. Smith
Poster's Email:	david.smith@ACM.ORG
Message Date:	2005-06-24 02:39:50 UTC

209 ... SPOILERS* Re: Did POB change with the times? (was Starting BATM, looking back) -- rank: 633

Spoiler Space: * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * In my view, Stephen was crying inside throughout The Hundred Days. The tone of the whole book is colored by his grief. It is only at the end when he has the two Irish waifs to care for that he begins to break out of it. On 6/23/05, Hugh Yeman <Hughyeman@yahoo.com> wrote: > > On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:22:34 +1000, Kerry Webb <ringle@GMAIL.COM> wrote: > > >Hugh wrote: > > > >&g ...

Poster's Name:	Billy Ruffian
Poster's Email:	billy.ruffian@GMAIL.COM
Message Date:	2005-06-23 23:18:09 UTC

210 ... SPOILERS* Re: Did POB change with the times? (was Starting BATM, l... -- rank: 633

In a message dated 6/23/05 1:22:58 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Hughyeman@YAHOO.COM writes: > Now that's in interesting point. I have rather vaguely considered this, > and just as vaguely assumed that although POB does not show us every moment > of Jack and Stephen's life, he does show us a representational cross- > section. In other words I assumed that since POB didn't show him crying or > speaking to anyone about his grief, he never did. > THD SPOILER below: I would hav ...

Poster's Name:	Batrinque@AOL.COM
Poster's Email:	Batrinque@AOL.COM
Message Date:	2005-06-23 16:21:09 UTC